Why study an Automotive MSc? | with the University of Bath
This week I'm joined by Dr Daniel Coren, senior lecturer for the Department of Mechanical Engineering at the University of Bath, to discuss their Automotive Masters courses. We chat about the history of cars, the future of the industry, and how studying at Bath prepares you for the real world
Participants
- Emily Slade - podcast producer and host, Prospects
- Daniel Coren - senior lecturer for the department of mechanical engineering, University of Bath
Transcript
Emily Slade: Hello and welcome back to Future You, the podcast brought to you by graduate careers experts, Prospects. I'm your host, Emily Slade, and in this episode I chat to Daniel Coran from the University of Bath about the automotive MSc courses available.
Daniel Coren: Well, good morning, Emily. My name is Daniel Coren. I'm the director of studies for the automotive MSc courses at the University of Bath.
Emily Slade: Perfect. Amazing. So, we are here to talk about the courses, but before we get into that, let's begin with why should we get excited about cars still here in the 21st century?
Daniel Coren: Well, that's a question that I'm happy to answer. My short answer would be is that we can't help but be excited about it. That's my belief and experience. But to try and give you a fuller, more detailed answer, I'm going to start with a legendary. Male. That's all of Icarus. Now, people may be familiar with this legendary tale of the person that flew too close to the sun, but what not everybody knows is that he's also warned not to fly too close to the sea. And it's my belief or my addition to that story. That halfway up, he realised there must be a third way, somewhere between the sun and the sea, and he looked down and saw a wheel rolling down a hill and became a believer in the idea of the car. So distracted was he. They did get too close to the sun and fell to earth, but the plus side as he became, I think the world's first ever automotive or car enthusiast and set the tone. For the rest of us. Now to me from legend to a true story and around about 1890, I think Bertha Benz, wife of Carl Benz, manufacturer of the first car. Pretty much in terms of a production car decided one early morning to go out on an adventure in his car with her children. So the journey was really quite an adventure. And and the fact that it was done in this interesting way without without alerting her husband means that really, I think one of the first recorded journeys in a car is effectively A joyride. So again, setting the tone that cars are to do with excitement and adventure, not just utility, if we move on. In a little bit later, there was a celebration of the freedom that cars can bring, which is called the emancipation run. Going from London to Brighton. Since then, uh whole raft of exciting kinds of technology has come to come to bear that we call a car and it's impacted many different areas of our lives. So I'll give a few examples. So in terms of cultural references, there was a poet that focused on the driving of cars at Canto de Motori, or the song of the engine. If we move from poetry to song, I can think of a few examples. So Fast Car and then Car Wash by the appropriately named band. I think Rolls-Royce perhaps is a little microcosm of the trajectory of the car and we had cars wanted to go faster and then we realised we might need to do some cleaning up because of some of the things that they cause. If we look at film, we now know that if you're a wizard, you must drive a Ford Anglia. If you're a secret agent, you have to drive an Aston Martin. And if you want to become a time traveller in the future, you'll of course be driving a DeLorean. So from those slightly whimsical examples, we can we can see, though, that there's a broad interest in vehicles, not just by people that are excited by the car conceptually or that need one just for utility. So I think there's something beyond that. There's an innate human thirst for adventure, which cars facilitate. They allow us to go. Further and faster, and although we're in a rapidly changing world with respect to the car and other things as well. And one thing that's constant is that we're still sentient biological analogue beings, and we're excited by make sure the movements. And so I think there's going to be always a generation of people that can find value in vehicles. Now I've come to here today to talk to you about a set of automotive MSc courses, so it seems appropriate to finish this question with an equation. So. I like to say that human beings, plus cars equal human happenings. So cars are with us for a long time, I think. And there's going to be lots of exciting and positive things we can enjoy with them. And there's a more serious side as well which will address today as well. But I thought I'd start with this, so optimistic and positive outlook on cars and human beings.
Emily Slade: Yeah. Fantastic. So how do we define a car today?
Daniel Coren: An interesting question. Lots of different ways that one could answer that, but here's my answer. I'll start off actually from a formative early experience of my own with respect to cars, here's a story I quite like to tell people, including my students, which is that my first car actually was a Ferrari. The first car that I ever bought was a Ferrari. Now I usually follow that up by explaining that it fits in the palm of my hand. It was a toy Ferrari. OK, so it was interesting. It was a metallic green Ferrari 250GT.
Emily Slade: Hmm.
Daniel Coren: So you can go check that out if you're interested, but the reason why I mentioned it actually is that although it was a Ferrari, it had a tow bar on it. Which as a child maybe I found fun or that was that perhaps the intention, but actually for me it caused intrigue. And that's partly because if I ever saw a Ferrari on the road, which was not very common, it never had a tow bar. So I would ask my father or other people why? Why? Is my toy for. Sorry, I've got a tow bar, the real ones don't seem to and for me it was the beginnings of trying to think about the features on a car and the purpose of a car. So sometimes a car is for utility, sometimes it's a luxury item for pleasure and adventure, and that's caused me to look more deeply into cars and car technology. Taking me into a career in industry, working on cars and then into academia to help people develop their future cars. Now, now that I do share that story with some of my students, I'm now informed. Actually you can buy. Ferrari, with the tow bar, which slightly spoils my story, I think the general thrust of that organisation and tow bars means that I think why my point still remains. So cars are very much for utility or luxury. So it's important for us to think about those things when trying to find. What a car is, and in particular what a feature car might be. So there is a set of challenges that cause bring. We said we would address some of these negative sides of the car. There's certainly a spotlight on the industry at the moment because of some of these negative impacts that it's had. There are positives too, so we'll try and talk about both today. But certainly there are concerns in terms of air quality and climate change to do the CO2 emissions that are associated with transport and cars. Also, problems with congestion and so there are a series of solutions that we need to think about when we're thinking about what a future car should be. Yeah, it's a word that we happen to use when we're talking about a thing on wheels that helps us move across the land. Some people call them automobiles, some vehicles. Some. People will call them a car, but certainly then a range of new technologies and solutions are required, so a lot of change so rapidly evolving sector. Some people talking about talk about it as an evolution. Some people might think about it as a revolution. If we cast our minds back to, say 800 years ago, a lot of people moved around on horseback and only the wealthy might have a car. Nowadays, that's flipped. So many people have a car, but really only the wealthy might have a horse and the horse would be for probably a leisure or a pleasure type of kind of a journey or activity. And the cars become more of a utility so we can look back and see there's been significant change. Things turned on the head, and that's likely to. And again, so the moment majority of cars, at least up until the last five or ten years of load on fossil fuels for their propulsion systems, but that's really been turned on its head. And we're looking at a future where there are going to be battery electric cars, there'll be hybrid cars as well, perhaps using sustainable fuels or hydrogen. But we're looking at autonomous vehicles. And connected vehicles. Mobility as a service, so maybe you don't own a car anymore, but you get on your phone, you use your app, and a car is brought to you. Who knows who is going to be making that vehicle. But a big change. But it's good to remind ourselves that we've seen big change already. In fact, if we look at the period beyond us moving on horseback, the range of propulsion systems. That we're using, including steam, actually electric cars were actually more prevalent than petrol or diesel around a hundred 120 years ago, so we shouldn't be too surprised about this big change. Actually. Perhaps you've got complacent. And maybe that's a time to remind ourselves of a few examples of these different approach. So and round about the time we're recording this. There's a film out in the cinemas I think we're allowed to mention called Formula One, but a little bit further back there was a film called Ford Versus Ferrari, which gave a bit of insight into the different approaches people took in how they went about making a car. The mass produced forwards, or the bespoke for ories suited for different customers and different sorts of journeys, and also brings to mind for me the tale of the two Henrys. So funnily enough, in 1908 two people could Henrys went about making cars. So Henry Ford and Henry Royce. The Rolls-Royce then and probably now associated with luxury and quality and reliability. The Ford perhaps more of a convenient mass-produced product or commodity. But interestingly from an engineering perspective one could say that Ford took a more advanced approach to the engineering of the car because all the different components on the car could have been taken from the production line and fitted to any one of those cars, such was their design and manufacturing approach as the roles where everything's foetal. Interestingly, I probably steal those reputations as they early emerged in the early days. Still do remain so if the interesting examples of how we approach what vehicles are. But yes, I think exciting times of all of this change. It's an opportunity. But of course it requires a new generation of people. To develop those new ways for us to move around.
Emily Slade: Yeah, absolutely. So going on from that. Can you tell us a bit more about the MSc courses available?
Daniel Coren: Yes, I'll be happy to. We looked around and saw what was happening in terms of group of people interested in cars because they might be customers. Other people interested in cars because they're legislators, other people interested in cars, perhaps because of some of their negative environmental impacts. And we saw this real growth in societal interest in car and transport. And really the first time in a long time, all of those people really interested in thinking about and talking about cars. As as a discussion point, good and bad. We saw all of that and thought OK, we need to be educating a new generation of people, perhaps of a different set of skills. And so we developed a portfolio for MSc courses actually related to automotive engineering. And I'll go through them briefly now in the context of who might be coming onto those courses. So one another for the courses. We call automotive engineering with electric motion. That's what people whose first degree might be automotive or mechanical engineering. They've already got a background in those kinds of topics, but they want to come and specialise and go into a deep dive investigation into some of the application of the physics that allow new vehicle technologies to be developed and we can help them help prepare them for going into a job in industry to do those things. But we also recognise that with all this change. The kind of propulsion systems that future vehicles might have, especially shift or electrification that there might be other people that want to come and get involved but hadn't really thought about that in the earlier part of their education. So an example I sometimes give is it could be that you've been studying chemical engineering or you're a chemist and you've realised, hey, cars are pretty exciting. And so is this set. So maybe there's an opportunity there for me to come and make a map. But how do I how do I get involved? It might be difficult to get that first interview or job, so if you come and do an MSc that's got an automotive connection that would help you. So we created what we call our automotive technology course. So you can come onto that if your first degree is science background, but it could be for example that you've done chemistry. We'll help fill in some knowledge gaps in the first semester. And then you'll be able to link in with the other students on the courses on other more advanced automated topics and be ready to go into that sector. So 2 quite different streams allowing a much more diverse range of people to come and get involved, which is exactly what the industry needs. There's there's a broadening of technologies. Different propulsion systems, different kinds of connected vehicles. So it makes sense, I think we think to allow this wider range of people to come and get involved. Now each one of those two courses has a business management variant of it and that's what people have come from. Those different backgrounds in terms of their education or aspiration and experience. But realised they're more interested, perhaps in getting involved with the coordination, project management or innovation management in the industry. And if we think about the different kinds of vehicles that the companies need to make and the different partnerships perhaps with different kind of sectors that they need to get involved with, whether it's communication for connected vehicles, whether it's to do with the power generation network for having clean energy for electric car, it's clear that we need some real expert leadership. And management to come into the industry as well. So our automated courses have a balance between the technical side, but management and innovation. So all very much needed. One of the really exciting things is that once all of these students are on this portfolio, they'll specialise and we have dedicated units for them. But they'll also come together at certain points within the course as well. And that's a good stepping stone or experience, a good taster. For how they be working when they come into industry, whatever your particular area of interest and specialisation is, you're not just gonna be sitting in a row of desks with 50 other people with the exact same skills. You'll be working with people with a range of skills, so this way the course works and the integration of the Co. Allows people to work together with different interests and backgrounds and specialisations and see how to make the most of that work effectively as a group and as a team. So how does that work in practise? Again, we've taken a new approach. We've kind of torn up the rulebook and said this isn't just about sitting in traditional. Lectures. That's not the best way. We don't think to learn about engineering. It's part of it, yes. So you'll come in whatever the topic is, you will come to a lecture. There is some new complicated information we need to make you aware of. And we'll do that through lecture. But you'll then come to a tude. You'll then come to a tutorial and tutorial. There'll be a set of questions for you to work through which will help you with, but there will be a set of solutions for those unique solutions, and you'll get feedback on that. You'll then move on to what we call a problem-based learning workshop, where we'll set a challenge, but there is actually no unique solution. We don't actually have the. So we'll work with you to go through that and the idea is you take the new knowledge from the lecture, you take the feedback from the tutorial questions that you've answered. So you've developed some skills, but then you're applying it in this more innovative way to try and solve a problem. We'll complement that with a set of laboratory experiences as well, which could be computer laboratories or physical laboratories. And you get a chance to get your hands on some of the hardware. Now it's not. We're training you to become a technician and assemble engines or motors, but if you do look inside the hardware, it's often a good way to understand why they're designed in that way. When you go back to the theory, it starts to make a bit more sense. So we try to combine all of those different things, the digital and the. Physical. As part of the. Learning whatever the topic so the topics. To include looking at batteries, looking at electric machines looking at hydrogen fuel cells, we'll still look at reciprocating engines because they might be using sustainable fuels or hydrogen, but also look about how you connect all that together with a hybrid powertrain. It will look at connected vehicles, though. How do we connect those vehicles to each other or to a grid for avoiding congestion or for charging them up? It will look at the light weighting of the vehicle and it will also look at how do we make vehicles more aerodynamic and reduce the aerodynamic drag of them. So it's a very holistic approach to designing and developing a new generation. Of cars and preparing a new generation of engineers to do so. So we like to think about it in terms of designing or redesigning the car from the. Got out, but really starting with the propulsion system, that's where the major changes and at Bath, it seems like a natural place to do that because there's a great track record at Bath with the automotive and mechanical engineering departments and the research track record as well. Fairly recently we've opened £70 million iapps research facility. So there's an app. Community of researchers and there's physical building there and that's very much part of the community in which our students will be existing and studying. So it might be that your lecturer one day is in the IOPS building working with an OEM, developing A next generation of vehicle and then the next day they're in the classroom with you helping you to solve a problem. So. As you come through in semester one, we'll give you expert foundational knowledge as you move into semester 2. Will give the opportunities to apply that and help you understand how to apply that in an effective systems thinking way. You'll get a chance to use specialist software there which we have access to through our apps and our industrial. Snacks. And then you come to the summer where you'll be applying that in a really innovative way on a project that will be an individual project. If you're on one of the engineering and technical tracks or it will be a business management type of a project where you work in a group. If you're one of the business management variants. So it's a bit of introduction to the four courses that we have preparing you to become a specialist, but be able to work with other people, be able to apply theory and an exciting way and prepare yourself for industry by working on a project which in many cases where in most cases in fact is linked to industry. It's a chance for pragmatic innovation, which actually is one of the things the university stands for. These courses are designed to help you do that, which we think is exactly what the industry needs, so pretty exciting times. And if I reflect on my time in industry, where there was a period where there was lots of hard work on developing things, but it was quite iterative. And trying to perfect technology that was already there, whereas nowadays we're ripping up the rule book, as I say, lots of new things to get involved with. So a really, genuinely exciting time, I would say lots of opportunity because of that. So it might have been 20 years ago that you're going for a job and you're competing with people that got decades of experience in. For example, diesel fuel injectors. Nothing against them. Very interesting items. But now you could be going to a job interview, and if you've done one of these Mac courses and you've got knowledge on, for example, what's happening with the next generation of battery chemistry or motor design or fuel cells, actually when you're going for that interview, there won't be someone there with decades of experience or certainly not so likely to be. So you've got a bit more of an even playing field, certainly compared to how things. Admin to come and get involved with the industry and make your mark on it. We're trying to develop the next generations of innovators and leaders in the technological science and in the business and management side.
Emily Slade: Yeah. Amazing. So what are some of? The highlights from the course.
Daniel Coren: Well, there are many. I I certainly think so. But to pick a few in particular, I've touched just now on the summer project work that our students get involved with, we call those industry linked research projects. If it's on the technical side, we call them industry linked business consultancy projects. If it's on the business manager. Side either way, you'll be set a project not just by an academic as we might traditionally have done, but a project that's been set in conjunction with our contacts in industry. So you'll have a challenge or a brief that's been set that we've discussed as academics with our industrial partners. You'll then come and take on that project, there's an allocation. Process students get to choose the. Projects. You will then be working across the summer period with the benefit of being in the academic environment with all of those support networks, but also you've got this industrial mentor support. So there'll be a launch meeting pretty exciting at the beginning. So may get to meet these people in person, get to know them a bit better. Understand something about their background and the background to why they've set this challenge with us. You'll then work on those problems across the summer. You'll be meeting with your academic support team, so that's your lecturers, but also PhD students who might be working on quite similar things. So it provides some a different kind of insight for our NSC students. But you also get to be having calls and discussions with your industrial mentor. Site visits as well occur there, so it's almost like having a mini placement experience or work experience during the summer on campus. But with access to what's happening happening in those companies, so is the excitement of working on a real live project. We also have an arrangement, so all of those companies are happy for our students to broadcast and publicise what they're doing. So that means you'd be encouraged and in fact supported to be right. Seeing blog posts which we might you might post on LinkedIn, so check those out. Go and have a look. Other platforms exist but I know there are some there that people who listen to this might want to check out. So please do go and have a look. It's quite nice to hear students talking about what's going on. Of course I've got positive things to say about the course and about Bath because I think it's a wonderful place. But what I find interesting take students. That too. But one of the benefits of the students of of writing these stories is they're able to talk about their industrially informed project work in the summer. The company that they're working with will do some cheques on what they what they share. So nothing commercially sensitive is released inadvertently. They can let the world know what they're doing, which is a really good opportunity for them. In terms of employability, umm, so sometimes in some respects. We think about this such that the MCS students come here and it's as if you're working on a startup company where the product or what you're developing is you. You've got this network of support from the academic teams. All of the facilities here, including the physical and the digital, but also the employability teams, the marketing teams, the academic advisors. The whole network of of people there. So. So if you think about it that way, it's a really exciting opportunity to come and improve your skills and yourself and ready. Yourself for moving into industry so those projects are really kind of a Halo part of the courses and students find it quite transformative. Other things like other highlights I mentioned a couple more. One would be the big investment we've made into our laboratories where I may see students can learn there's a dedicated space for them. So you can test an internal combustion engine with a sustainable fuel. You can test electric machines. You can test things in the wind tunnel, and now we've developed a virtual reality environment. So welcome anyone, including yourself. And we'll come down and try. There's a real. Wow, factor to it that our students. Report. So we've worked with the company, one of our industrial partners to develop this unique or bespoke experience. So students will put the headset on, they'll go into a virtual laboratory and in front of them, they'll see an electric motor now. Electric motors in a casing actually, if I dare say so, not always that an exciting thing to look at. But once you're in the environment, you look down and you see a control panel as if you're a test environment, and if you start moving the levers, those virtual levers, the motor will first will become partially transparent in terms of its case. Thing. Now you can look inside and you can see what they copper windings so you can start to see the permanent magnets. So. Oh, OK, let's see what's. Going. On inside here. OK, but how does that work? Well, you can push another lever and it starts to slowly turn or it will turn more quickly if you like. So it's starting to move as as it would do when it's generating useful mechanical torque. You can then do something. Which is impossible with any other real electric machine, which is you can turn another leaf. And now the flux lines. The reaction between the permanent magnets, those field lines and the coil windings becomes visible. So you can actually finally see how mechanical torque, or how wheels can be turned on a car, how that comes from the electromechanical interaction that's going on inside a motor. So that's a real light. Moment for many of our students, it's an exciting environment to be inside and to experience that, so the students. Go inside that and they can take their own journeys. Walking around, we'll we'll guide them. But it's really fun for them to explore that in the way they like. So there's another feature there where you can open the motor up so the separate components spread out like an assembly diagram that's been opened up. Or we sometimes call it exploded and then you can see all the parts. Moving and separate from each other and see it more clearly. And then if you like, you can actually walk around and put your head inside the machine. Look at this. These magnets moving around in a completely safe fashion. And I think that can electrocute you or hurt you physically. And you can put it all back together again. But with the transparency it moving. So we're really exciting, really excited about this new development, which we'd. Like to apply to other. Aspects of our teaching. And perhaps one of the thing I mentioned is that because of the connection we have through the university and our department with our apps research group, community and building and and connection to industry is we're able to allow our students on the MSc course to have access to professional automotive software and that includes. Avls specialist propulsion. Modelling software. They're one of our research partners and they helped us to develop our new research building. And so through the teaching side of things, you have access to that. So it's that's a really special opportunity. We think very special. So students on the course will be sitting down and using software that allows them to model how. A particular vehicle and a particular part of the world where the particular propulsion system could be electric, hydrogen and whatever they decide, it will allow them to to model that and size it so that it could complete a journey. They can then look and see well, how much energy was consumed. They can then look and see well, what is the grid intensity? How much carbon is there in the grid? How much energy did I use to either make this liquid fuel or charge this electric car and and to carry out this this journey that allows them to take a scenario based holistic approach to vehicle propulsion, system selection and matching. Using the same professional tools that people are working in industry. Would use so. Gives you a real head start when you're applying for a job that allows you to really get a taste of what it's like to work as a profession. Engineer while you're on the course. So that's nothing that we're really excited about and proud to be able to offer because of this track record that we've built up at Bath over the past decades.
Emily Slade: So when we think about the cohort at the University of Bath, like what, what do the students look like?
Daniel Coren: Well, that's a fascinating question actually. And it's a really interesting experience for us meeting these people when they are. 5 So I've said something about the four different courses that we have, but there's a big variety of people that are going to come and take them, not just because of their background and aspirations, but because of where they've come from around the planet. And there's wonderful unifying thought there really that we've got this really international sector cars being designed, made and used all around the planet and we've got people coming from all around the planet to come and study with us. So it's really fascinating for us to see to see those personal journeys, get to know those individuals. It's the individuals that make the difference in the end when they go and work in the industry and put their individual stamp on things. So we welcome and support people from all around the globe. We acknowledge that when you've arrived here from somewhere very different or very far that you might be missing home or. It might be a lot to get used to here, so we put a lot of effort into helping people climatise in our welcome week and beyond, so we help you figure out how to move around in the transport systems that we have. How to find the bus? How to find the campus? How to find your lecture theatre? How to find digital information, how to get support and help if things get tough. All of that's here as part of this support network we've got on campus. So it's a friendly, welcoming place in terms of all the staff here and also all the other students here that the students can learn from. In fact, just recently. Students have created an automotive specific student union supported. Unity. Society called the Autoverse, recognising this really broad range of places that these different people come to, and then the exciting different places that they they'll go on to to help go around the planet spreading the good word from bath and developing the next generation of cars.
Emily Slade: Yeah, brilliant. Any final key takeaways for our listeners?
Daniel Coren: I think I'll go back to one of the things we said earlier about this from from horses actually to steam electric, petrol, diesel and now onto electric and hybrid vehicles. Lots of change means lots of opportunity. And it's really horses for courses to come back to the equestrian theme. And here at Bath, we think we've got the range of expertise to help you with that. So we've got research, active experts teaching you who are also professional expert educators. You've got access to really some of the world's best facilities in terms of hardware and software for doing. Automotive development, especially on the propulsion systems side, but also how that impacts the rest of. The car we have guest lecturers coming in to help to live with the course. So you actually get to speak to people working on propulsion systems projects, but also in vehicle design projects. How do people try and think in, in original and an innovative way when trying to solve problems, it's a really exciting time to get involved with the industry, lots of. Range. Lots of opportunities for you to get skilled. Up, especially with these courses that teach you not just some of the technical knowledge or business management knowledge or systems thinking knowledge, but gives you opportunity to apply it with our projects linked with industrial mentors in the summer and as much as possible make you career ready. We'd like to keep in touch with our students. When they've left, we invite them back to come and visit the university and speak to the current students, explain their journeys, which our current students find quite helpful, actually. So look out for videos on our websites and other social media so you can see some of our facilities, but also some of the success stories of our students. It's one of the things that motivates us and makes us get up in the morning, exciting to see these new people developing these new cars and in fact, we relying on them. So you know, I fully expect to see our students become leaders and innovators in different parts of the industry and for myself and you and you as well, Emily, to be riding around or driving bath inspired. Cause in the future.
Emily Slade: And if prospective students want to get in touch with you, can they do that?
Daniel Coren: Yeah, people want to reach out to me all the social medias should work. You can contact me through the university or through LinkedIn or I think you'll share. These podcasts other ways that people connect and please do read. Out we like to have conversations with students before they start the course as well to make sure they're on the right. One of our four courses. And so they get the maximum amount of the course when they're here. Bath is a lovely place to be. It's a UNESCO World Heritage site, so we like to think that we're able to mix this blend of long-standing principles associated with physics and engineering in this wonderful. Robin Bath inspired City but coupled to our new apps, facilities and our campus facilities is the best of modern digital and physical tools as well for you to become. An automotive expert, so we like, we'd like to provide that opportunity for you. So please come and make most of it come get in touch.
Emily Slade: Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for. Your time today.
Daniel Coren: Absolute pleasure.
Emily Slade: Thanks again to Daniel for their time. For more information on the courses available, check out the show notes below. For a full-length video version of this episode, check out our YouTube channel @future you pod. If you enjoyed the episode feel free to leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. Thank you as always for listening and good luck on your journey to future you.
Notes on transcript
This transcript was produced using a combination of automated software and human transcribers and may contain errors. The audio version is definitive and should be checked before quoting.
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