Keep calm and carry on: The realities of being a CEO
This week I'm joined by Heidi Fraser-Krauss, the Chief Executive of Jisc as she shares her career journey. We talk about the lessons she's learned about resilience, communication, and self-awareness, and why true leadership is more about responsibility than power
Participants
- Emily Slade - podcast producer and host, Prospects
- Heidi Fraser-Krauss - Chief Executive Office, Jisc
Transcript
Emily Slade: Hello and welcome back to Future You, the podcast brought to you by graduate careers experts, Prospects. I'm your host, Emily Slade and in this episode I chat to Heidi Fraser-Krauss, the CEO of Jisc.
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: I'm Heidi Fraser-Krauss, and I'm the Chief Executive Officer, so CEO, of Jisc.
Emily Slade: How did you get your job and were you always planning on becoming a CEO?
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: So how I got my job was serendipity. So I heard that the chief exec of Jisc was retiring and thought, oh, that's interesting. I hadn't had any plans to move. I'd only been recently. I was at the University of Sheffield, hadn't been there very long, but thought that this was just who got an opportunity to miss. You know, it was one of those things that only comes up sort of once in your career. And so I applied. Not thinking that I get it, but hey, if you're not in it, you don't win it. So there we go. So no, had I always thought I was going to be a CEO? Absolutely not. If you said to me 30 years ago, what would you be doing now? Would never have said this, ever. And so it's not, I've always thought, well, I will be, whatever. I have, I suppose, taken opportunities throughout my career, responded to things where I thought they were interesting, pushed me out of my comfort zone a bit, you know, oh, could I do that? Let's have a go. So yeah, no, not something that was in a game plan.
Emily Slade: Yeah, and is that usual, do you think? Do you brush shoulders with a lot of CEOs and were they always thinking to get to that position or do many of them just sort of find themselves there?
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: Most of the people I know have sort of fallen into it, have taken opportunities like me, I suppose. And sometimes I think there's a bit of luck being in the right place at the right time. something comes up at just that moment or somebody leaves and you do an interim role and then find out you're a good fit. So no, I don't actually know very many people who say I've always wanted to be a CEO. I'm sure there are them, but I've not met very many. Or maybe they wouldn't admit it either.
Emily Slade
Perhaps. So what skill sets do you think are necessary for a leadership position?
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: So do you mean a leadership position generally or a CEO leadership?
Emily Slade: Yeah, I mean, if you can cover both. Yeah, if you can cover both with a swing towards CEO.
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: So I think there's something, so leadership's all about people, absolutely all about people. So communication skills. really very important. That ability to connect with people, get your message across, understand what they're saying, play it back to them. So communication's really very important. The ability to listen, therefore, to people. If I think back in my earlier career, I always thought I had to know everything and be able to do everything, and that isn't actually true. So the ability to listen to other people and respect their expertise, resilience, You need to be fairly resilient because people will challenge you, things won't go right. You need to be able to take risks. You know, you need to be able to make a decision and know that sometimes that decision won't be right. So there's a bit of braveness in there, I think. Ability to build teams. So there's lots of things I think you need to. The ability to build teams of people. So creating a culture, and this I think comes, is that the communication is part of it. So building teams of people or a team of people around you who complement you, know, will challenge you, will say, hey, no, I don't think that's the right way of doing it. And so having that atmosphere where people can actually challenge you, I think is very important. I think that covers most of the things. I'm sure there's bits I've missed out, but those are the things that I think have occurred to me over the time, that willingness, willingness to step up to the plate. And I don't really know if I know what that means. I suppose willingness to take things forward.
Emily Slade: Yeah.
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: You know, not just let things go as they always have. Initiative. That's the word. I think initiative. So there we go.
Emily Slade: Brilliant. And anyone thinking of anyone who's starting out and maybe aiming towards a leadership role, what advice would you give to them?
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: That's an interesting question. So I think knowing why you want to be a leader, I think is quite interesting. So I think being self-aware, you know, what you say you want to be a leader, but why do you want to be a leader? What is it you think you will get from doing that. So I think sometimes people think, well, I want to be the boss, but why do you want to be the boss? Because I think that matters. Because I think one of the things that's definitely struck me over my career is that being in a leadership position does not make you all powerful, does not mean You can crack whips and everybody will do things. And I think some people think that's what leadership is. Leadership's actually the opposite to that. Leadership's responsibility. So I think that people who are thinking about being in leadership positions need to think that. But I think it's the one piece of advice I would give people is that first point I said there was about self-awareness, knowing why you want to do this and also knowing yourself.
Emily Slade: Yeah, brilliant. It's like those that want to seek the philosopher's stone because they want to use it for evil won't find it.
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: Very good Harry Potter reference, like it, like it.
Emily Slade
So what's been the most standout moment of your career so far?
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: So getting the Jisc CEO job was a pretty, pretty, yeah. I mean, not everybody becomes a CEO, do they? You know, it's an achievement where you have been judged amongst your peers. And, you've been in a competition for other people who, had lots of skills and experience and abilities, but you got it. So that is, I think, that's so far. So I won't say that's been the pinnacle, but so far that has been something where I've thought, yeah.
Emily Slade: It's something to be proud of.
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: That's really good. You know, it's something I mean, I've got three kids. I've worked for a long time and been able to say, well, I became a CEO. Yeah.
Emily Slade: And if a company that you didn't invent, because there are lots of CEOs out there that are in charge of something that they built from the ground up. And whilst that's impressive, there's also something to say about being brought in to another company.
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: That's true. Yeah, being brought in. So the people who were, you know, interviewing me thought, Yes, she can lead this place. She can take it forward. That gave me a buzz. And it still does, actually. It still does. I enjoy what I do very much. And I think that's the other thing, just to go back to some of the bits around leadership, you want to enjoy what you do. You really do, because if you don't, you spend a lot of time at work. And I have to say, my advice to people would be, if you're in a job where you really Get up on a Monday morning and say, my God, I've got to go to work. Do something about it. Actually take some action. If it's not right, go back and change. Because I like my job.
Emily Slade: And I think that's important.
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: Easy to get out of bed. Easy to motivate myself. So yeah, those are pieces of advice I would give to people.
Emily Slade: What is the biggest lesson that you've learned on your career journey?
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: Well, persistence, I think, is, you know, If at first you don't succeed, try, again. And also things might not go right. So I've had times where I've applied for jobs, I've not got them or something has gone wrong at work. And it's that ability to say, right, that went wrong. I'm going to dust myself off, pick myself up and start again. Now that doesn't happen immediately. Sometimes you can brood on something for a while. But And also saying, right, what went wrong here? What could I have done differently to make sure that won't happen against that self-awareness, that self-reflection? And I think that's what I've learned throughout my career. I've had times and I know I've come home to my husband and gone, oh my God, it's a disaster. And he's very good. And he said, yes, and listened and whatever. And then I've reflected on it and I've thought, actually, it's not that bad, and there's positives here. And so it's that ability to keep going. So I've got on my, I've had it on more or less every office wall I've had, keep calm and carry on, because that is a really good motto, because you can react to things initially and make poor choices if you do something in the heat of the moment. Whereas if you can let a little bit of time pass and try and look at it in a calmer and cooler frame of mind, that helps. And I think I've learned from, you know, writing emails in, you know, in anger, bad thing to do, bad thing to do. Or not thinking about something that somebody's done from a different perspective and reacted badly. So it's that step back. Be a bit calmer. Think about it and then respond. I think that's been the biggest lesson. I never write emails in anger now. I might write the e-mail, but I don't send it.
Emily Slade: Straight to drafts.
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: Well, yeah, so don't put who you're going to send it to in the two side. You know, it sounds like a really daft thing to say, but I think I've made the biggest mistakes my career by doing, by reacting in the heat of the moment. And I think maturity, as in getting older, helps with that. You do need to also, if something's gone wrong, sometimes you'll be really upset. And that is part of getting over it in a way. So don't bottle it up, but it's what you can take from that.
Emily Slade: Yeah, definitely. Do you find ways to support your physical and emotional well-being in what's probably a very, almost highly strung role?
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: Yeah, so I have quite, I have set boundaries to protect me, to make me perform to the best of my ability. So I am very keen on hill walking and outdoor things. So I go out every week and go into the countryside and go walking. That's very important to me. I don't work on a Friday night. Friday night is downtime. I don't read emails before I go to bed. I used to read emails before I went to bed and then something would have come in and I'll then lie there not sleeping. So I try and put boundaries around what I'm doing. Now that doesn't mean to say, so if something dreadful happened on a Friday night, of course I would work. But it's more that discipline of having space. I take my holidays. I'm not somebody who says, well, I don't need any holidays. I go on holiday. And when I'm on holiday, I try my best to switch off. I don't always manage that. But I try very hard. So I try not to read my e-mail. I instruct people and say, look, I'm not going to read e-mail. Contact me by text or whatever if you want me to engage, but I'm not going to engage. So I think it's those Boundaries and having, I mean, I've got a very supportive partner. My husband's great. We talk about work and that helps as well. Needn't be a partner, couldn't be anybody, couldn't it? But just having somebody who you can... share some of those things with and say, and they help put it into perspective, I think. That's the thing. So yeah, very, very important that you, if you find yourself working till midnight every night or can't sleep because of work or lots of other things that I know people have, you need to take a step back because you'll damage yourself and that's no good for anybody. But you'll also not perform. if you're in those sorts of positions. So yeah, again, I've learned over time to monitor my own stress levels. Now I'm fairly resilient. So, you know, I can work long hours and whatever, that's fine. But I also know if I go beyond a certain point, I'll be no good. So I stop.
Emily Slade: Yeah, I think it's very, or it has been recently very in vogue to have that hard work, hustle, grind, grind, grind mindset. But actually it is always way more efficient and effective to take your holiday, to take your weekends, to take your space.
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: Yeah, I think that's right. Now, that doesn't mean to say you don't work hard or aren't committed, but it's, you know, 12 hours a day is not sustainable in the long term. You know, there's lots of evidence that says that.
Emily Slade: Any myths you'd like to debunk about being a CEO?
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: That you know everything, that you're always right. Well, I think actually coming back to what I said earlier, that leadership is not about power. It's about responsibility. And I think I feel that. I feel the responsibility of being the chief exec of this organisation. I know that I am in the spotlight. I know that I might say something or do something. People will pull me up for it. Or what I've done will have a sort of cascade effect down the organisation, you know, sort of, well, she's doing it there, it's fine for everybody else. So I think that idea that, you know, being the boss is, oh, well, I can just, you know, shoot my own hours and, you know, go off and walk up hills or whatever, whenever I like. No, I, being a CEO is really responsible. And You need to take that seriously. Really need to take that seriously. So yeah, I think that's the myths, this idea that, oh yeah, you can.
Emily Slade: Get away with it.
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: So yeah, you know, it just doesn't happen.
Emily Slade: Yeah, that's terrifying. Well, you build up to it. Yes, that's true. Do you think that when you got the role, you were... You were obviously in the right place at the right time. You were your most well-suited. Does that make sense as a question? Like, could you have done this 20 years previously in your career?
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: No. So, I mean, I think I have built, I've had a lot of experience in a lot of roles. So, you know, starting off with small teams, bigger teams, teams of teams. So I think the thing I reflected was that I have been a boss for a long time, you know, led large teams. lots of budgets, lots of responsibility, but I'd never been the boss. And that is a difference. So 2 things I think. One, I feel the most protected. I ever have. So I've got teams of people around me stopping me from going to jail, for example, or, doing something, doing something, making a large mistake. There are groups of people who are there around me and they know that their job is to support me. But there is also the buck stops here. So I feel both more protected and more exposed at the same time. So I know that if something really goes wrong, it's my responsibility. And I think that's the other thing people need to bear in mind about being in a leadership position. You have to be accountable. You cannot say them, it's you. And that's hard. That is hard because sometimes things will happen. Well, you've seen this, I've probably seen it in other organisations all over the place where something that happened at a level way down in the organisation went wrong, but the chief exec has to carry the cam. And That's something that you have to think hard about. So that responsibility piece I was talking about, that definitely comes in there, that you are the one that has to deal with it. You can't slip your shoulder it. It's your job.
Emily Slade: Yeah. And what's the best part of your job?
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: The best part of my job? Well, I love this organisation. So I feel that what we do is really very valuable. when I think about education and research, I think those activities are life-changing in every way, education or research, and we underpin a lot of that. So I feel the purpose of the organisation that I lead, that gives me a warm glow. And I know I've got lots of people within the organisation who feel just like me, all doing their best to make this organisation a success. And that is warm glow territory. When I read about the projects we do, the activities that people have undertaken, meet people at various things, I read out our, awards stuff. I love that. I really do. So that's the best part of my job, I think.
Emily Slade: Yeah. Is there anything else that you'd like to add?
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: Maybe you were saying it was terrifying. So I think leadership roles are both Scary in one way, but very, very rewarding because I think if you do the job well, the rewards of that are huge. the support you get from people, the changes that you can make, that's really what it's all about, to be honest. So I think I would add that in. So it's not impossible either. It's not impossible. It's all doable.
Emily Slade: Yeah. Thank you so much for your time today.
Heidi Fraser-Krauss: You're very welcome.
Emily Slade: Thanks again to Heidi for their time. For more information on getting into a leadership position, head to prospects.ac.uk. For a full-length video version of this episode, check out our YouTube channel @Future You Pod. If you enjoyed the episode, do feel free to leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. Thank you as always for listening and good luck on your journey to future you.
Notes on transcript
This transcript was produced using a combination of automated software and human transcribers and may contain errors. The audio version is definitive and should be checked before quoting.
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