From hobby to career: Advice from a podcast producer
In this episode, Sophia Tang sits down with Emily Slade, who went from running her own hobby podcasts to landing a role in professional podcast production for Prospects. They discuss the realities of producing a podcast, the behind-the-scenes work that takes place and offer practical advice for anyone starting out
Participants
- Emily Slade - podcast producer and host, Prospects
- Sophia Tang - social media strategist, Prospects
Transcript
Emily Slade: Hello and welcome back to Future You, the podcast brought to you by graduate careers experts, prospects. I'm Emily Slade and this episode we're mixing it up a bit where I'll be on the other side of the microphone being interviewed and Sophia Tang will take up the role of host.
Emily Slade: So my name's Emily and I'm a podcast producer and host.
Sophia Tang: So how did you get into podcasting?
Emily Slade: That's a very good question. So I actually started podcasting as a hobby in 2017. So I ran my own podcasts just in my spare time, and they were all movie based. And I built up a community and learned the sort of basics of what I was doing. And then I eventually ended up in a job at the BBC working in local radio. And once that came to an end, this position came about. It was a part-time podcast producer and host position that I just applied for and got it. So managed to randomly go from hobby to job just by fluke, really.
Sophia Tang: How would you describe the whole process of actually getting this job though?
Emily Slade: It was a lot easier than you'd perhaps think it was. It was very much a case of saw the job being advertised on LinkedIn and then I think because of my own personal background, hobby podcasting and having worked with audio. on local radio, so in a live environment as well, that probably helped my case. But I was told that they specifically went and listened to my personal podcasts and it was like personality hire vibes where they were like, she seems cool. So that's how I got the job beyond any sort of technical skill, because I think they assumed that anything technical you can just be taught. But they were specifically asked like a particular voice and luckily I happened to align with the voice that they were searching for.
Sophia Tang: Yeah, No, that's great. I can definitely see the personality throughout this whole podcast and why they chose you, honestly. How would you say you go through interviews? Like what's the process of preparing for them?
Emily Slade: Yes, so you source your guest and you can do that through LinkedIn. I reach out to people a lot or if it's a client-based episode, they'll provide a guest for you. And the first thing you do is make contact with them. So you try and jump on Teams or Zoom ahead of time just to introduce yourself, run through the process so they're aware of what's going to be happening. Then on the day, you try and take a good 10 minutes to chat to them ahead of time before you sit down in front of the microphone. And then between that, you can, you, it's different for each episode, really. So sometimes I'll write the questions, sometimes there'll be set questions, sometimes they'll write the questions if they're trying to promote a particular course, for example. And sometimes you can just work together on how you want the episode to come across, because you've got this time and it's basically on how you want to use it best as to what justifies what questions you ask. And so that'll be different each time. And in terms of preparation, you've just got to make sure that you've always got your equipment on you, that it's charged, that you've got off at the right stop, that you've entered the correct building, that you've checked the guest in ahead of time with reception, that you've booked out the room in time, that you've bought all of the questions along with you, you've got access to them that you've made everyone sign every consent form feasible. So there's a lot that goes into it, but it is just a step-by-step process that you go through.
Sophia Tang: So for people who may not have actually done an interview before, is there anything that you say to them in particular to kind of help calm their nerves?
Emily Slade: Yeah, so it's not about dictating how to be interviewed, because fundamentally, the best interviews are always the most authentic. And to make people authentic is to make them chill out and calm down. And the best way I find to do that is to just make sure that you've got that time ahead of recording to talk to them, to ask them how their travel was, did they find the place okay? Go for a coffee, sit down and just have a conversation like normal people. You can never predict how people are going to change once you press record. Working at the BBC, a lot of people would just suddenly disappear as soon as that red light appeared. Hopefully that won't happen. And the way to combat that the most is to make sure that the person just feels comfortable, ensure that the wonderful thing about podcasting is that it's not live. So if you do, you know, muck up, you can go again. And to just install enough time into the process that it doesn't matter if you do need to stop, walk around the room, take a break, shake yourself out for some energy, and then go again and pick up. So just having enough time and calming in order to calm that person down and having enough time in case things go wrong.
Sophia Tang: So I guess what would you say is something about podcasting that people don't realise until they actually start doing it?
Emily Slade: It's long. It's so long. It's like, it's so long. I think everyone, you know, especially in the pandemic, everybody was like grabbing a USB, you know, blue Yeti Nano, plugging it into their computer and being like, I'm a podcaster now. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like absolutely everyone should be a podcaster. Like it's so fun and it's genuinely really social, which is really fun. It was how I kept my social life alive like 20s and everyone starts disappearing. You're like, oh, but if we meet up for a podcast, then it like has purpose. Also, while you're here, let's have a beer. So that's a really great side of it. What people might not realise is that once the fun bit is over, once you've had the socialising and the chat, you then have to go away and upload all of the MP3s and the video onto your laptop. You then have to shove it all into whatever platform you're using and then you have to edit it and editing takes a long time, especially if you want to do a good job. Nothing's stopping you from just topping and tailing something, which means you just cut off any intro that's unnecessary and end as soon as the interview finishes. and then just publishing that. But chances are it's not going to be your best work. Less is more, and a tight edit will always result in a better episode than, like, obviously you're hilarious, and obviously you and your friends are so funny, and everything you say is so important. But like, maybe just stick to the highlights. And to do that, takes time to go through each episode and listen to it and edit it together. And then that gets boring. So you need time to go away and do something else and then come back and continue editing. Then you have to publish it onto a platform, which doesn't take time, but it's another procedure where you have to write episode notes and have any links that you want to do and fill in all the chapter markers. And do you want to do a transcript? So that's something that you have to consider while you're working on the edit. And then once that happens, maybe you have to market it yourself, because otherwise no one will find it or listen to it. So are you also running social platforms alongside it? So you have to make an announcement on whichever social media platform you want to announce it on. And that comes with its own piece of copy that you have to write and consider. And so there's just a lot of different aspects to it to turn around an episode to then promote it and put it out into the world. And then maybe if you're a new up and coming podcast, no one's going to listen because no one's going to find you because now everyone does have a podcast. And whilst that's wonderful in one way, it also means that you're going to get very lost very quickly under millions of algorithms. So to try and push yourself out, you have to connect with people and get them to download it, get them to listen to it. So then that's emails and messages and trying to get people to rate and review you on Apple and Spotify and all of these things that can help boost your numbers. And if you don't want to do any of that, then that's fine, but you've still got the edit in the 1st place to get it out to that point. So that's the one thing I think that people don't realise, how much backend work is involved once you've done the amazing mind-blowing content.
Sophia Tang: For sure. So yeah, as someone who works social media and completely understands the whole process of marketing, I can't imagine how many hands you have to have just to get involved in podcasting as well. Also, just the process of editing can be incredibly time consuming and you have to reason with yourself being like, is this something that people would actually listen to or am I just convincing myself otherwise? So, and we all know that editing software of any sorts requires so much patience to just go through that whole process of being like, is it going to crash on me today? Have I saved this file, etc. So completely understand. And when you mentioned Blue Yeti, I was like, oh my God, I remember getting my first mic and just navigating that whole process and now having a Rode mic and navigating that as well. It's just the transition and knowing how it is when you first start with just basic equipment that you can afford to where you are now is like just such a journey in itself. But as a podcaster, have you found that being a podcaster has opened up any particular opportunities for you in real life?
Emily Slade: Well, I wouldn't have got this job if I wasn't podcasting as a hobby, for one. So I'm literally employed full time with holiday and sick pay to do what I was doing in my spare time alongside another job. So that's the main one. But then also, especially back in 2017 before the podcasting bubble exploded in 2020, I have friends all over the world now. I went to LA in 2023 and I had free accommodation because I stayed with my friend that I literally met through podcasting. When I used to come up to Manchester, I would have people to go for drinks with because I knew people through podcasting. And it really opens up a community of people that is so lovely and it's so much fun. And even today I still guest on people's podcasts and it's always really lovely when you get passed on to somebody else. They recommend you. They're like, oh, well, have you had her on yet? She's really cool. And then you get to spend an evening talking about Fast and Furious 10 with two strangers from Boston. And it's really, really fun. So it is genuinely in terms of, that's not so much opportunities as kind of life-changing things that are happening, like, friends, you make friends through this. through it. In terms of opportunities as well, I guess people that you can talk to, like you do start having people reach out to you and you get to interview people that you might not have ever met before. I've interviewed Garth Merangi, which I would never have. Do you know who that is? Are you just saying, I admittedly can say I don't actually know who this is. That was a that was a dead-eyed you were like, That sounds impressive, but I have no idea who you're talking about. He had a show on Channel 4 in the like mid-2000s. He's a he's a Matt Holness is an actor and Garth Merengue is his character. In certain circles, that's very impressive.
Sophia Tang: I can definitely still say, as someone who doesn't know him, he sounds impressive.
Emily Slade: So, in terms of opportunities, sometimes... things like that come up. I've also interviewed Ian Ogilvy. Yeah. He was nearly James Bond. Okay, that's quite big to say. Back in the like 70s. So yeah, all the mums currently are like, oh my gosh, Ian Ogilvy. So lots of opportunities arise. You do have to chase some of them as well. But primarily for me, it's been just the community that you make from it.
Sophia Tang: Yeah, for sure. But yeah, I definitely think it's so important to have that community. And I've learned from my experience of just being in social and just being in digital how important it is to just make those connections. Like, I think a lot of people underestimate how having a network can really take you places. And I can relate to the being like, I know people from across the world and being like, oh, actually, Accommodation, free place to stay, free people, people who have free time to actually hang out with you wherever you go is such a lovely thing to have. And it's just a sense of comfort as well, knowing that you know someone there as well. And you get to explore so many opportunities. But I guess going back to podcasting as well, just like For anyone who is interested in starting a podcast, do you have any particular advice for someone who wants to start?
Emily Slade: Yeah, just do it and like commit to it. You really do have to just do it. Don't think about it too much because it doesn't matter. You're going to learn on the job. You don't have to come out of the gate perfect because I promise you, no one is going to listen to your podcast when you start. They might do down the line in three years time. And by that point, you'll be better because there's And that's lovely that no one's going to listen to you because you can mess up and you can learn while you're doing it. And that's, I find that's the best way to learn by just keep putting it out and then you'll be like, right, well, now you listen to it back and you're like, okay, well, I won't do that next time and you don't. So by the time people do start finding you in three years time, because you've been consistent, that's also advice that I would have. You have to commit to it. You have to be like, right, what can I do? What is my capacity? Can you put out something on a weekly basis? Maybe you can for a month and then you get bored. So don't commit to that. Maybe do one a month and then hit those deadlines for yourself, which is good discipline anyway, but it's also a big ask. And it's like a hobby that's essentially being run like a job where you're self-inflicting these deadlines. I used to come in from my 9 to 5 temp job in a housing association and then jump on the tube and go the other side of London, interview my friend about hook, and then come back at midnight, wake up, go do my 9 to 5, come come back, edit it that evening, next day, same, and publish it. And then the next day, go out and interview somebody else about something else. And when I think back on that now, I'm like, it makes me so tired to think about that I did that. But like, I did it, and that's how I would hit a weekly episode, because you just commit to it and make those deadlines and stick to them. So understand your own capacity, make deadlines and stick to them. and just do it and know that it's not going to be perfect the first time you put it out. Also, just do your own thing. Don't try and copy what everyone else is doing. The internet these days is so saturated with content and it's exhausting. And if everyone's just jumping on the same trend, I don't want to hear another person talking about Stanley water bottles. I want to hear another person talk about the weird frisbee you got when you were seven and you became obsessed with it for like a year and you're going to tell me the history of that frisbee. Like that's interesting because it's passionate, it's about something that you're interested in, no one else is doing it and that's way more interesting to listen to and will get people on your side than if you're just trying to hit what everyone else is doing. So do your own thing.
Sophia Tang: Yeah, I think it's so important, one, as you were talking about to start, I think it's so easy to kind of overthink that process of being like, oh, I need to do this, I need to do that, et cetera, and stuff like that. And then you've just overfought the situation so much, you never actually start. So definitely agree on that. But also, like you said, finding your particular niche. I find that, like you said, we're in a world where we're so content saturated by everything, trends, and it's so easy to follow them. But actually, people can really feel the level of authenticity when you talk about something. And if you're just talking about something because it's trending as opposed to because you're genuinely passionate about it, people can tell. And I think like you can definitely feel like a deeper sense of connection when you're talking to someone or even just listening to someone and they're Talking about that story, whether it's like you said, the weird Frisbee that you had when you were like a kid and stuff like that, or just talking about like a really personal situation to yourself. Like you never find, you never know where you might find yourself resonating with a particular moment that they had or their upbringing, et cetera, and stuff like that. There is a particular podcast I find myself really connected to as well. So yeah.
Emily Slade: And just to follow on from that, something you said just reminded me, like, are you going to be talking to yourself in a room? In which case it's It's a lot easier to hit deadlines because you're only relying on yourself. Or are you trying to outsource guests? Are you going to have a co-host? These are all things you need to consider because are you going to be able to get a guest in every week? What if they drop out? What's your backup plan? Do you just skip an episode that week? Like, do you have a co-host? What if they suddenly get busy? What if they can't commit in the same way that you can? What if you have a falling out? So whilst you shouldn't overthink it, there are also things that you need to do think about. and just consider again the amount of work that it takes to secure somebody. As we previously said, make them comfortable with talking to you. Like, that's why the communities are so important, because you're getting people that come with their own equipment, know how to talk in front of a microphone, are willing to show up and commit to a deadline. Do you have to send them a reminder e-mail the night before to remind them that they're meant to be talking to you? tomorrow. What if they then go, oh no, I forgot, what do you do? Like little things like that. So there is a job aspect to this hobby if you are looking to go into it. And I do say hobby because chances are you are not going to make money from this. I'm sorry, but you're not. At least not like job quitting money. Like A podcast is a marketing tool. Even the big ones like Off Menu are used to promote books and tours that the hosts have going on. It's also fun entertainment to listen to, but it's primarily there to promote them and their work. So independent podcasts are just for fun. So make them fun and don't get wound up with statistics and analytics and downloads and trying to get sponsorships and all of these things, do it because you want to do it, not because you think it's a side hustle.
Sophia Tang: Yeah, I agree. And I think, like you said, just talking about having a bit of an initial plan without overthinking it and then just kind of learning on the way as well, because I think the whole process of like podcasting is learning from your mistakes or learning about things being like, oh, actually I find that this works better for me or adjusting your schedule because you realise actually I'm burnt out and I can't actually do an episode each week and stuff like that. And that's okay because like you said, when you've just started creating a podcast, like you have that flexibility to be like, okay, it's not working for me. Let me change that. And then that consistency then builds out to a following, builds out to people actually like, you know, speaking about you, listening to you and whatnot and stuff like that. And I think that's having faith in what you do goes such a long way as well. So I think we've covered this anyways, particularly around the career and stuff, but I guess if there is a possibility, how would you suggest people pursue this as a career?
Emily Slade: Yeah, career is interesting. So there's definitely more and more jobs coming about as a podcaster. You are more likely to join an organisation that is news-based. If most paid for podcasting roles that I've seen tend to come from news outlets. So you'll be working for the BBC, The Guardian, Sky, that sort of thing. And you will need a foundation in journalism if you're going into that aspect. You will also be given one aspect of the podcasting process. If you're an independent podcaster, you're doing everything as we've discussed from start to finish. And that's what I do in my role because it's me. It's me. I do all the things. So when you go into a career version of it, you might edit, you might source guests. You'll do like one of those aspects and be part of a wider team. So the Guardian in Focus, you'll be writing show notes and getting guests ready to come onto the show. You won't then host it. You won't then necessarily publish it. You won't then market it. There'll be different teams in charge of all of those different aspects of the process. So that's something to think about and just try You can hone your skills in all of those, so then you can apply for all of those and be seen to cover everything, which I think is useful. But just know you won't have complete creative control, particularly if you're going into the corporate side of podcasting. You will also definitely, I think, need that foundation in journalism if you're going into the corporate side of podcasting, because they just tend to be in a news-based environment more than, you know, an entertainment-based environment. Maybe that, there's lots of corporate podcasts now, there's lots of podcasts run by celebrities that need teams behind them. I think there's many more podcast studios that are popping up and there's possibly in-house positions with them. I imagine agencies have started popping up so you can get work with them. So then you have more of an ad hoc ability to work on a variety of different podcasts. So that's just generally my understanding of the world of career podcasting at the moment. It will inevitably evolve and change even after we publish this in a week's time. So just try and, I think the best thing you can do is do your own podcast or a YouTube channel or something like that where you're creating your own content so you have an understanding of the skills, you know how the different suites work, you know how the different platforms work, watch YouTube videos, just try and gain as much knowledge as possible so then you're ready to go as soon as a job comes up. In terms of salary, they tend to go from sort of 22,000 to 45,000 depending on your role and your experience. There won't be much room for career progression in a lot of of these positions because it's just a job that needs to be done and there's sort of nowhere to go after that. So that's something to keep in mind as well if you were hoping for like a long career to become CEO of something, like you probably won't. But again, that could all change. And then the landscape of podcasting is always evolving, it's always changing. Big studios are closing down whilst others are opening, so just keep an eye on that landscape and keep an eye on LinkedIn, I guess, if you're interested in applying for that sort of thing.
Sophia Tang: Yeah, I agree. And like you said, the podcast world is constantly evolving. I remember back in the day, like we weren't really seeing much agencies having their own podcast, et cetera, and stuff like that. But like you said, now it's become even part of their marketing strategy as well in order to promote maybe their products or other things and stuff like that as an extension of what they already do. So I think it's definitely, there's opportunities like you said, but obviously knowing the sort of risk and knowing what you're getting yourself into is so important as well. And like you mentioned about just having that level of variety in your skill set, it's so important. I think it's important to keep developing your skills no matter what you're doing, because you just never know where that skill set can take you as well. But yeah, do you have anything else to add otherwise?
Emily Slade: God, I always ask people that and I always expect them to say something. You know, I'm being asked it and I'm like, no. I guess just, if you're going to do it, just do it. And then don't beat yourself up if you find that it's not for you. If you find that it's more work than you anticipated, that you don't have capacity for it, that you're not enjoying it, that it's removing the fun of having a conversation with your friend by then having to listen back to it nine times while you edit it. That's okay if you hate that. Like, Having a podcast doesn't make you interesting. Yeah, But it can be really fun. So yeah, if you want to do it, just commit to it. Because you can learn what mics you need, what you're going to talk about, where to publish it, which platform to host it on, et cetera, et cetera. But the one thing you need is the commitment to it from yourself. And so If you have that, great, go and do it. And if you don't, that's fine.
Sophia Tang: Yeah, and I always say that I believe that it's better to try than not, because you never know. You might end up regretting back like 10 years later that you're like, oh, maybe I should have tried doing a podcast. And like we said, there's so many transferable skills that you might find you end up using later on anyway. So if you're going to commit, just commit. Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much for your time today. It was a pleasure listening to you and swapping roles as well.
Emily Slade: It was fun. It feels way less effort being on the side of the interview. So yeah, thank you so much.
Emily Slade: Thanks again to Sophia for stepping in to host this week. For more information on starting a podcast, head to prospects.ac.uk. For a full-length video version of this episode, do check out our YouTube channel at Future You Pod. If you enjoyed the episode, do feel free to leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. Thank you as always for listening and good luck on your journey to future you.
Notes on transcript
This transcript was produced using a combination of automated software and human transcribers and may contain errors. The audio version is definitive and should be checked before quoting.
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